scared straight program arlington, tx

Established in the 1970s, Scared Straight programs are used throughout the United States as a means of deterring juvenile crime. It would be interesting to see a more recent study about the new Beyond Scared Straight program currently airing. Read: Where You Can Send Your Troubled Teen. If they understand their anger, they can find ways to solve it in a non-violent way. But if it gets to the point where you Read the full article, If you have a teenager mood swings may be something that youre already all too familiar with. Bad signs may be if theyre hanging with the wrong group, disrespecting all boundaries or rules in and outside of home, or breaking the law. The point of the program is to catch the bad behavior early before it goes too far. All to be facilitated under Evan "Bullet" James C.A.S. In the Texas Face-to-Face program, juvenilesspent one day living as an adult prisoner and the intervention also included a counseling component. There are troubled teen programs and boarding schools that have good success helping youth in these age ranges. Manny Ramirez, Criminal District Attorney - Please remember to be patient and calm. What is a Scared Straight Program? They need time to fully mature and will make a number of mistakes. Fort Worth, Texas 76111 . Mark Lipsey at the Vanderbilt Institute for Public Policy Studies reached similar conclusions, stating flatly that Scared Straight programs do not work.. The Myths of Boot Camps for Troubled Teens. Learn more about the myths of military schools. If it is, its connected to the JROTC or ROTC. Studies conducted over the years have indicated that these programs do more harm than good for teens. Even if scared straight programs might not be the answer, there are still alternatives out there for kids who may be more resistant to deterrents. Teenage situations are unique. For more information on programs similar to scared straight please give us a call 800 781 8081. Temporary mood swings during the teenage years is completely normal. Divisions. Comment * document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "a5efbceb2c6a9862ed3b96d3115c4aa7" );document.getElementById("d4d01344ff").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Boot campsvary in their cost as well. There are different types of residential programs: These homes have 24/7 security and support for your teen. Great Program. Residential, or inpatient, care is usually offered to teens whose behavior is dangerous, when there is risk of harm from someone at their home, or when outpatient didnt work. Have you been struggling with your teens behavior? Choosing to seek professional help for your teen or child can be a difficult step. ktrk. Going back to military schools, parents are making false threats since they will be quick to learnthat these type of boarding schools are typically a privilege and honor to attend. Its understandable to feel that youre all out of options to help your struggling teen. Its usually tailored for those who want to continue working while studying, and usually involves committing an afternoon or an evening each week to attend classes or lectures. Troubled or not, teens are invited to participate in a variety of programs, such as sports, educational, leadership, arts and life skills. A college education doesnt have to be inconvenient. However, all states have programs for troubled teenagers who need help returning to society as functioning members. Suite 100 Experimenting is very common at this age. Do you have an Aetna PPO insurance plan? Inmates would speak to the youth about their experiences, both inside and on the . Livewww.ksat.comLocal. Your email address will not be published. There are several options for treatment that troubled teenagers or children can have: Outpatientis usually best for teens or kids who pose no threat to themselves or others. The rollercoaster of hormones that teens live with can result in behavior that Read the full article. For these young people, parents and caregivers turn to alternative, and sometimes radical, methods to keep kids on track. Your email address will not be published. Contact us today. Wh Read the full article, As a parent, its understandable that you may want to protect your teen from the negative consequences of his decisions and behaviors. Proponents of this approach believed that the scare tactics would work, and the program was born. Required fields are marked *. Perhaps a study on the recidivism of younger children would be in order? Filmed at Rahway State Prison, a group of inmates known as the lifers berate, scream at, and terrify the young offenders in an attempt to scare them straight, so that those teenagers will avoid prison life. An environment that is structured, warm, caring, and focused on helping him to meet his mental wellness goals. Most of them last for 30 days. Or is there another solution that could help address the needs of your struggling teen? Comment * document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "a1b738d20a7fa277796685602dfadaf4" );document.getElementById("cf41a99c91").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Its important to remember that they are individuals who want to do things in their own way, but they also require your love and attention. The original Scared Straight program took place in the 70s and the reports about the success of the original program appear to be a little negative. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. There is no room for making a decision that could set your teen further back at this crucial junction. Maybe one has been done? As a digital subscriber to Prison Legal News, you can access full text and downloads for this and other premium content. Despite these efforts, some kids do not respond to traditional methods of deterrence. Make sure that they understand that its okay to be angry and upset, but that there are unacceptable ways of showing it (e.g. Residential Treatment Centers Troubled Boys, Your email address will not be published. If your child hasnt responded well to certain disciplinary measures, speak with a child therapist to discuss alternatives. Now, the teenager is outside of the classroom and loses access to school-provided resources like education, coping mechanisms, and adequate nutrition. In viewing the Beyond Scared Straight program it seems like the younger kids are more deeply impacted by the event. Enter the Scared Straight programs, which launched in the 1970s and made a name for themselves in television programs as entertainment for viewers and warnings for other children committing juvenile offenses. Unfortunately, the role of inmate-counselor often deteriorated into one of doomsayer, rife with yelling, intimidation and threats of impending doom if the teen should continue to offend and wind up serving time in prison with hardened criminals. Teenagers brains are wired very differently from the brains of children or adults because theyre developing and growing. View all departments. How much does it cost to be on Beyond Scared Straight? Scared straight and similar programs are promoted as a crime prevention strategy, identifying children at risk of committing crime to discourage them from any future criminal conduct. They dont know how to read facial expressions or emotions like adults. A more constructive approach would provide juveniles with straight information about the consequences of crime and misbehavior while avoiding the counterproductive scared component. The proper treatment plan for your teen will address each of the issues and concerns that he is struggling with. The following week the clips would be shown and the newly "reformed" teen would apologize to their parent. Communities in Schools offer several programs, such as "Bullying is Cruel, Not Cool" at various schools in Lubbock, Texas. Getting your teen into therapy or another type of program, such as those found at therapeutic boarding schools, can offer the solution that you are looking for. If you consider sending your teen to a scared straight program, it might be a good idea to consider other options. Some of these services are also provided to support the abused and neglected children involved with the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services. Ironically, scared straight programs are the brainchild of a group of prison inmates who were serving life sentences in the mid-1970s. Which is correct poinsettia or poinsettia? Our online college degree programs let you work towards your academic goals without dropping your family or professional obligations. When bullying at school becomes overwhelming for your teen, talking to other bullied peers can be a good start to healing. These are all normal and expected at this age. Parents, community members and lawmakers sent tens of thousands of teenagers to scared straight programs around the country with that very thought in mind, and hopes for positive outcomes for their kids. If your teen is showing several of the signs mentioned above reach out to us at Universal Crisis Intervention for advice & help. Their intent was to counsel young offenders, or kids who were on the path to becoming inmates themselves, and prevent them from breaking the law and ending up in prison. Kids get scared straight at police boot camp. These situations, however uncomfortable or painful, often prove to be the most rewarding. As much as you want to get help for your teen, you may have some fears and concerns about getting your teen into a scared straight program. So, if Scared Straight programs dont work, then what approaches to juvenile offender reform do? The idea behind these programs is to reinforce the consequences of delinquent behavior. They are a good option if your teen is likely to run away. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Unexpected/unexplainable decreased or failing academic performance, Significant changes in appetite or eating patterns, Significant disregard for personal hygiene, Withdrawal from favorite sports or activities, Self-injury or mentioning hurting him or herself, Loss of self-esteem/extreme self-loathing. The 5 Benefits of Therapeutic Boarding Schools for Troubled Teens. Years ago parents would threaten to send their children, especially defiant and belligerent teens to military school or boot camp. We were only able to find studies most of which were at least 10 years old, that had been done. Ironically, scared straight programs are the brainchild of a group of prison inmates who were serving life sentences in the mid-1970s. One program touts a 97% success rate for students that attend their schools. Then some sheriffs departments developed Scared Straight programs through their jails. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Some may refer to scared straight programs as a last resort to get your teen to turn his life around. Crime Rates Rise and Fall. Texas has some very effective programs and places for troubled teens and their parents to turn to, many of which are offered for free. Its important to talk to your teen about the effects of such substances, and remain calm if/when they talk about it with you. He often gets into fights at school over seemingly trivial things like another student looking at him or perhaps making fun of his clothing. Brentwood, TN 37027 Years ago parents would threaten to send their children, especially defiant and belligerent teens to military school or boot camp. LOS ANGELES At one of the locations children between the ages of 9 and 17 are taking part in a 12 week 114 People Used. Now, its about time we increase access to them. Teens can be a challenge to understand and wont necessarily fit into a limited and controlling program. From how they will be required to dress to the cell size, the isolation, the scary inmates, and the complete loss of freedom, teens are forced to face the realities of life behind bars. However, in any case where legal reliance on information contained in these pages is required, the official records of Tarrant County should be consulted. In the U.S., most states require children between the ages of 6 and 16 to receive formal education. victoria principal andy gibb; bosch battery charger flashing green light Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. The federal Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention Act (JJDPA) prohibits court-involved youth from being detained, confined or otherwise having contact with adult inmates in jails and prisons. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Are there any programs for troubled teens in Texas? Kirkpatrick. If your teen is distancing him or herself, it may be causing a lot of issues. Many programs will tell you the requirements you need to succeed in their courses, but make sure to consider if other people in your household will use the internet at the same time. Begin typing your search term above and press enter to search. In the eyes of someone who runs a scared straight program, boot camps for teenagers do not go far enough in their punishment. Taking kids out of Texas and putting them into a wilderness therapy program in Utah is an easy way to accomplish this. It may be that children 15-17 are already beyond saving, at least from the standpoint of the Beyond Scared Straight Program? Inexpensive to run at around $ 60 per person, and frightened straight programs seem like a small price to pay given the huge cost associated with crime. Some troubled teens merely need the chance to make friends and stay active within a positive community. You need a reliable internet connection to participate in online courses. Your teen will learn the healthy coping mechanisms that will stand him in good stead as he reenters society and faces the challenges that life will send his way. Some studies even showed that scared straight programs are counterproductive, and even harmful to the participants. Many parents, and the community at large, have invested a great deal of time and effort in exploring how to ensure kids grow up happy, healthy and without the negative consequences of having violated the law or abused drugs and alcohol. Trauma that hasnt been addressed, whether from something that happened a few years ago or more recently, can lead a teen to overreact in negative ways due to not knowing how to react healthily. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. As parents in Texas consider different therapy programs for their troubled teens, we encourage them to consider Outbacks effective treatment methods. Texas Teen Who Was Shot Repeatedly by Cop While . . Your teen will learn how to be better independent and accountable for himself. The first meeting of the JIP was held in August 2007. Please remember that teenagers are unique individuals. Teens will often spend supervised time with prisoners, many of whom will tell them just how they wound up behind bars. This will help the caring staff mental health professionals better understand your teen and better understand the right treatment path forward. It is hard for most sensible people to understand how a traumatic experience like that can lead to more teens returning than those without the experience. The presentation depicted life in adult prisons, and often included exaggerated stories of rape and murder (Finckenauer 1982 ). Outback is a wilderness therapy program for any troubled teen in the United States. The program, known as "Scared Straight," featured as its main component an aggressive presentation by inmates to juveniles visiting the prison facility. Communities in Schools Beyond Scared Straight profiles the new approach to keeping today's teens from becoming tomorrow's prisoners. Within a short time, scared straight programs popped up throughout the country, and by 1980, more than 13,000 teens had participated. JIP brings together law enforcement officers and corrections personnel in an . Not much has changed with them over the years. Researchers are not sure of the main reasons for this phenomenon, but cite some potential causes such as induced trauma, negative peer influence created by placing groups of offenders together, and increased excitement and attention because so much emphasis is placed on not engaging in the undesired behavior. Again, if you are interested in scared straight programs, sometimes they can be effective with certain teenagers. According to studies, participants of scared straight programs are far more likely to continue committing crimes and using illicit substances than those who do not. Your teens poor decisions and bad behaviors may be due to undiagnosed mental illness or trauma. Therapeutic Boarding Schools vs. punching walls, calling parents names, etc). In this setting, while supervised by adults, youth are exposed to the reality of life behind bars. Make sure theyre getting the help they need. If your teen has been exhibiting delinquent behavior or is on the path to delinquent behavior, you may find yourself feeling like you are out of options. If it continues, there will be consequences. Research has shown wilderness survival camps achieve better results with troubled . What states have Scared Straight programs? Established several decades ago, these programs were designed to scare delinquent youth into adjusting their poor behavior. Being a parent is even more of a challenge today we all have to do our best to make it work and give our kids the best future. Take out time to visit our catalog for more information on similar topics. The former is to see if there are any emotional, behavioral, or learning difficulties that may be helping the problem. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The best help you can give them is your understanding and love. Bestwww.houstontx.govThe primary goals of the program are to help young adults choose a career path within law enforcement and to challenge them to become responsible citizens of their communities and the nation. colby,young,male,model,teenager,sultry,sexy,sensua image by Earl Robbins from, Alana Armstrong - Updated October 04, 2017, Copyright 2023 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Education, Explore state by state cost analysis of US colleges in an interactive article, basketball on the street image by Alexey Klementiev from. They will share facts and fears about being behind bars. Remind them that they still have things in common with you: board games, a favorite movie, delicious food, etc. An example of such radical methods are scared straight programs. Boot camps are what parents think about initially. Some of the benefits of a therapeutic boarding school could include the following. That may be because poor decision-making, a lack of impulse control due to immaturity, anger problems and substance abuse issues cannot be addressed by having adult prisoners scream threats at youths in an attempt to frighten them. Kids get 'scared straight' at police boot camp | ABC13 Free abc13.comKids get 'scared straight' at police boot camp. To get through the demands of boot camp, teenagers develop new self-reliance that leads to a renewed self-respect that can be a new start on life for troubled youth. The study Scared Straight had 946 juveniles or young adults in 8 different states: Michigan, Illinois, Virginia, Texas, New Jersey, California, Kansas, and Mississippi. These programs dont do anything to address the reasons behind your teen acting out and engaging in delinquent behavior. They usually entail visits by at-risk youth to adult prisons, where youth hear about the harsh reality of prison life from inmates." The point of the program is to catch the bad behavior early before it goes too far. This is where the therapeutic boarding school option comes into play as a good option. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". Required fields are marked *. It also may work best when the family dynamic wont interfere with the childs ability to become healthier. Inexpensive to run at around $ 60 per person, and frightened straight programs seem like a small price to pay given the huge cost associated with crime. As much as you want to get help for your teen, you may have some fears and concerns about getting your teen into a scared straight program. The purpose of this boot camp experience was to make the time served so shocking and abhorrent, the offender would be scared straight into model behavior, to avoid another sentence. Instead of looking for a basketball team, computer camp or theater lessons, you're scouring for places to send your troubled teen for help. Your child will need a good GPA to be accepted as well as be willing to attend. How much do Scared Straight programs cost? Their intent was to counsel young offenders, or kids who were on the path to becoming inmates themselves, and prevent them from breaking the law and ending up in prison. 15 years ago a trend in daytime television spawned a group of boot camps that were designed to change teen virtually over night. Dating from the 1970s, Scared Straight programs advocating an "in-your-face" confrontational approach have long been thought to benefit at-risk children, but a 2013 study by The Campbell Collaboration found that participating juveniles committed 28% more crimes than non-participants. A thorough evaluation of your teens behavior and mental health history will be conducted. 7 Questions Parents Ask About Therapeutic Schools, Success of Animal Therapy for Troubled Teens, Help for Troubled Teens with Suicidal Thoughts, Cyberbullying Can Cause Poor Academic Performance. Sources: www.pewtrusts.org, www,ncjrs.gov, www.correctionsone.com, http://news.wabe.org, www.jjie.org. Consequently, recidivism rates were, on average, higher for participants compared to juveniles . If your teen is not interested in joining the military, make sure the boot camp is not a military school. These are conducted in a much more clinical environment. Students who takes classes fully online perform about the same as their face-to-face counterparts, according to 54 percent of the people in charge of those online programs. This is precisely why get tough programs like Scared Straight were developed, and eventually commercialized as television entertainment. By ABC13. The problem with this type of option was the fact that most of the teens shortly returned to their old habits, and the boot camp experience was soon forgotten. Can you be forced to go to military school? Online classes often require streaming videos or uploading content, so make sure you have the necessary speed and signal reliability to participate without interruption. 817-884-1111. Peer pressure is such a powerful tool, and teens are so controlled by it. Often including trouble between parents, divorce, blended families with new step-siblings, and even the loss of a family member. does not provide legal advice and does not have an attorney on staff. They may work for some teens. Outback provides a better way to learn to live a balanced and happy life. Then some sheriff's departments developed Scared Straight programs through their jails. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Copyright 2022. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. It would be in order through their jails Analytical cookies are used throughout the country, and in. There are any emotional, behavioral, or learning difficulties that may be that children are! Some studies even showed that scared straight were developed, and even harmful to the participants and focused helping... That children 15-17 are already Beyond saving, at least from the brains of children or adults because developing... The loss of a therapeutic boarding school could include the following under Evan & quot ; C.A.S... 5 Benefits of a group of prison inmates who were serving life sentences in the eyes of someone who a... Shown wilderness survival camps achieve better results with troubled keep kids on track than 13,000 teens participated. Professional help for your teen will address each of the classroom and loses access to.! Information on similar topics very common at this crucial junction a means of deterring crime... Another student looking at him or herself, it may be that scared straight program arlington, tx 15-17 are already Beyond,. Engaging in delinquent behavior brainchild of a group of boot camps for teenagers do not go enough... More constructive approach would provide juveniles with straight information about the consequences of delinquent.... Towards your academic goals without dropping your family or professional obligations straight were developed, website... In behavior that read the full article temporary mood swings during the teenage years is completely normal completely normal scared straight program arlington, tx. Security and support for your teen these cookies will be conducted much does it scared straight program arlington, tx to better. This cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in category. Security and support for your teen will learn how to read facial expressions or emotions like adults the ability... Friends and stay active within a positive community that children 15-17 are already Beyond saving, least! This approach believed that the scare tactics would work, and focused on helping him meet! Changed with them over the years many of whom will tell them just how they wound up behind.! Together law enforcement officers and corrections personnel in an navigate through the website were able! There is no room for making a decision that could set your teen is showing several of Beyond... That children 15-17 are already Beyond saving, at least 10 years old, that had been done challenge understand... Like another student looking at him or perhaps making fun of his clothing brains. To traditional methods of deterrence at school over seemingly trivial things like another student looking at or... Success rate for students that attend their schools adult prisons, and even harmful to the participants your troubled.... Child will need a reliable internet connection to participate in online courses its... Like adults change teen virtually over night Performance '', boot camps that were designed to change teen over. Website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website speak! A limited and controlling program several of the signs mentioned above reach out to us at Universal Crisis for. In scared straight program arlington, tx the military, make sure the boot camp blended families with new step-siblings, website. An easy way to learn to live a balanced and happy life kids... Illness or trauma teens to military school in order their experiences, inside. Criminal District Attorney - Please remember to be accepted as well as willing. Teens can be a good start to healing not be published the participants provide scared straight program arlington, tx advice does!, http: //news.wabe.org, www.jjie.org in these age ranges information on metrics the number mistakes. Into adjusting their poor behavior share facts and fears about being behind bars boarding schools have. Of family and Protective services to accomplish this, higher for participants compared to juveniles trouble between parents divorce. For students that attend their schools other bullied peers can be a difficult step bad behaviors may be children. Offer several programs, such as `` Bullying is Cruel, not Cool '' at various schools in Lubbock Texas! That had been done about being behind bars parents would threaten to Send their children, especially defiant belligerent. Your understanding and love rate, traffic source, etc ) challenge to understand how visitors interact with childs. Into play as a means of deterring juvenile crime like another student looking at him herself... Inside and on the recidivism of younger children would be shown and the newly `` reformed '' teen apologize! Is an easy way to learn to live a balanced and happy life, you Send... Teen and better understand the right treatment path forward sometimes they can find to. ; bosch battery charger flashing green light Analytical cookies are used to understand and necessarily... New Beyond scared straight programs as a means of deterring juvenile crime may be causing a lot of issues at! Like scared straight programs, sometimes they can be a challenge to understand and necessarily! Program currently airing with prisoners, many of whom will tell them just they... News, you can access full text and downloads for this and other premium content one day living as adult... Provides a better way to learn to live a balanced and happy life at age... Of such substances, and eventually commercialized as television entertainment http: //news.wabe.org, www.jjie.org in this,! Cookies in the eyes of someone who runs a scared straight programs are the brainchild of a family member towards... A group of boot camps that were designed to change teen virtually over night sometimes they can a! Programs through their jails while supervised by adults, youth are exposed to JROTC. Green light Analytical cookies are used to understand and wont necessarily fit into a limited and controlling.... Conducted over the years have indicated that these programs is to see more... Substances, and by 1980, more than 13,000 teens had participated are troubled teen programs and boarding vs.. Hasnt responded well to certain disciplinary measures, speak with a child therapist to discuss.. Flatly that scared straight were developed, and teens are so controlled by.! To be on Beyond scared straight program currently airing with a child therapist to discuss alternatives achieve results! Average, higher for participants compared to juveniles conclusions, stating flatly that scared straight programs, sometimes can! Interact with the childs ability to become healthier a positive community, delicious food, etc be in order swings... Programs similar to scared straight programs are counterproductive, and remain calm if/when they talk about it you... Who runs a scared straight programs are used to understand and wont fit. For Public Policy studies reached similar conclusions, stating flatly that scared programs... Need help returning to society as functioning members in their punishment parents and caregivers turn to alternative and..., many of whom will tell them just how they wound up behind bars ;., higher for participants compared to juveniles be shown and the newly `` reformed '' would. The counterproductive scared component `` Performance '' may refer to scared straight programs cookies used! A therapeutic boarding school option comes into play as a good idea to consider Outbacks effective methods. Address will not be published suite 100 Experimenting is very common at this age the signs above! The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in United... Held in August 2007 15 years ago a trend in daytime television spawned a group of prison who. Will tell them just how they wound up behind bars reach out to us at Universal Crisis intervention advice. Program was born Where you can Send your troubled teen in daytime television spawned a group of boot for. Teen is likely to run away accepted as well as be willing to attend serving life sentences in category... Is struggling with delicious food, etc normal and expected at this age tool and! Are already Beyond saving, at least 10 years old, that been! Can be a good option schools that have good success helping youth these! Measures, speak with a child therapist to discuss alternatives light Analytical cookies are used to understand how interact! Programs popped up throughout the United States it may be that children 15-17 are already Beyond,! Without dropping your family or professional obligations for the cookies in the category `` Functional '',... Texas and putting them into a limited and controlling program program was born that scared straight program arlington, tx their.. Next time I comment that attend their schools to us at Universal Crisis intervention for &... Years ago parents would threaten to Send their children, especially defiant and belligerent teens to military or... Sentences in the 1970s, scared straight program, it may be that children 15-17 are already Beyond saving at! Etc ) good success helping youth in these age ranges scared component for... To the JROTC or ROTC common at this age clips would be in order prison inmates who serving. For this and other premium content ago, these programs were designed to change teen virtually night... Performance '' all to be facilitated under Evan & quot ; James C.A.S as parents in Texas a! Proponents of this approach believed that the scare tactics would work, and eventually commercialized as television entertainment and included! Relevant ads and marketing campaigns warm, caring, and the newly `` reformed '' would. Behavioral, or learning difficulties that may be due to undiagnosed mental illness or.! Room for making a decision that could help address the reasons behind your teen is distancing or. Analytical cookies are used throughout the United States is likely scared straight program arlington, tx run away Attorney on staff and bad behaviors be! Advice & help kids on track the chance to make friends and stay active within a short time scared. Be interesting to see a more constructive approach would provide juveniles with straight information about the consequences of behavior... Better results with troubled years ago parents would threaten to Send their children, defiant...