Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. When youre descending down the trail, the volume and resonance are amplified. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? Any rider who owns an ebike with an EP8 motor fitted with e*thirteen cranks currently has two options. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! Was thinking the same thing. You can hear the motor spinning and attempting to assist, but no power is delivered. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. Yeah but who needs all that power? I was sure it was a motor issue till I realized I needed to put the speed sensor on the new wheel. If you have a problem you can reapair it very quick. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. I have tested a few ones and to me best one is Specialized in terms of ridding feeling and refinement. In terms of improvements, EP8 is marginally lighter (300g) and smaller in volume (10%) over the old E8000 motor. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. - Lightweight and small form factor Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. 3. Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. The cheapest Specialized Levo is the Expert model, which sells for just shy of $16K. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. What's your experience on this? Bosch's Performance Line CX equals Shimano's torque,. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. Climbs really well and descends like a beast. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. We have Shimano crank arms in stock, and every customer contacting us from now can get them for free and save some troubles with their spindle, says Commencal. Too hot to handle even. 2. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. - Range estimation is not reliable. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. the rattle it because the sprag bearing that used to be used in most motors has been replaced by DT swiss style star ratchet drive rings. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. Approved crank arms are listed at si.shimano.com and are communicated towards bicycle manufacturers. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. Indeed Shimano EP8 is starting to become available across quite a wide range of bikes at various price points. That's it, no recall, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. It appears users on the forum correlated the crank preload issue with EP8 spindle failure, which e*thirteen went on to refute in TSB 157. Personally, were ok with downshifting and spinning our way up a steep incline its better for the health of your knees, and its likely better for the health of the motor too. What ever happened to grit?!?! I also have a YT Decoy with Shimano E8000 motor. Occasionally it can feel a little peakier compared to EP8, but for the most part both motors are easy to get used to within a few rides. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. We got in touch with several brands to find out if they knew about the issue, whether they were going to continue to spec the e*thirteen cranks with EP8 motors, and what a customer could expect to happen if they encountered this issue. The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. Sources at numerous ebike suppliers have told Cycle Volta this week that releases of new EP8-equipped electric mountain bikes are being held up, on Shimano's direction. You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. Dank leichter Magnesium-Komponenten konnte Shimano ganze 200 g Gewicht einsparen, was ihn zu einem der leichtesten E-Bike-Motoren auf dem Markt macht. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. However, the brand refutes a link between the preload caps undoing and any resulting damage to system components in TSB 156, and then goes on to affirm e*thirteen components are not the source of any failures in TSB 157. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. By their own standards of non-assist components, this motor is not worthy of the shimano name. Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. Shimanos latest EP8 electric bike motor, fitted to a host of brands bikes, is reported to suffer from a manufacturing defect that can cause the bottom bracket axle or spindle to develop cracks with use and exposure to the elements, and if left unchecked can eventually fail. You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. Along with a new larger 630Wh battery option, plus updated hardware and software, Shimano certainly hasnt held back with its much-anticipated return fire on the highly competitive and fast-moving electric mountain bike market. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? Specializeds Mission Control app continues to be the market leader in terms of connectivity, tuning options and user-friendliness. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. A dynamo and regenerative braking is the ONLY thing stopping from buying an e-bike? Specialized is close to this. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! Once again still want to know; is the BB replaceable on these units yet, or are they still landfill waiting to happen? This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. They must be under pressure to deliver units as this is at best rushed. On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? And compared to E8000, the new EP8 motor is considerably more powerful on the trail, whilst retaining the smooth and intuitive delivery that weve always dug about Shimanos drive units. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 49% battery remaining. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. Ive only charged 2x. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. After downloading the free E-Tube Project app, youll need to turn the bike on and pair it with your smartphone. Please, It appears you're using an old version of Internet Explorer which is, the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+, that achieves the most discreet integration, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo. -- Wild Bill. This will be a far more accurate method for determining your estimated range. That rattle would drive me bonkers. I've spent some time on this motor and it's one of the first to feel organic in the way it adjusts to the rider's pedaling. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. Funny that Shimano now budget e-bike motor builds? Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. Drive Unit Display Assist Switch Battery Drivetrain Tackle steep climbs and tough trails with full confidence thanks to 85Nm maximum torque. Truly unfortunate you lost it. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. Can someone make a bike with 50% - 100% assist? On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. Try to tackle crazy steep tech climbs. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. Shimanos battery flexibility certainly presents a significant advantage over the likes of Bosch, which is much more limited with its battery options. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. Total power isnt quite as brutish as Bosch and Brose, but the real beauty about EP8 is that it retains the smooth and intuitive performance that we loved about the old motor. At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? Weve ridden the latest Bosch Performance CX Gen 4 motor on a variety of e-MTBs, including the Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 and the Trek Rail. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. It was one of the most fun bikes to ride. No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. What is rattling? Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. It doesn't feel good. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. Updating our software will allow you to change the factory parameters of the new motor from Shimano. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. For consumers who do have an EP8-equipped Commencal with e*thirteen cranks, the Andorran brand is offering to replace the e*thirteen cranks with Shimano ones, regardless of whether theyve experienced issues with their EP8 spindle or not. This is because the assistance drops off quite quickly when you stop pedalling, particularly compared to the Bosch motor, which continues to push on for just a fraction longer. I tried to find out the cause of this. But yeah, different people. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. is a broken record . Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. Were currently testing three bikes with Shimanos EP8 motor and one of those has just over 800km on the odometer. The Kiox head unit has a nice colour screen with plenty of useful data on it, but were not sold on the magnetic attachment and the fact that the motor wont turn on without the head unit. I own the Levo SL, and it is the most refined ebike I have ridden so far. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. There are 5 levels of adjustment from Mild to Quick, with the highest setting requiring only a small rotation with light pedal force to engage the motor. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. It is MUCH less powerful, but there is no rattle, no weird cut off, no jerky pedal action. It also depends on the bike too. Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. So why has no one made a motorized gearbox yet? Posted Oct 21, 2020. The touch points are all up to typical Shimano standards of quality, though we would like to see improvements to the functionality of the display unit, notably having battery life shown as a percentage. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. I'd do way more on a big day. For commercial info: info@eplus.bike. The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. But it is not anywhere near the same engine in everything else. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. Environmentally I think they're a disaster as well - rare earth elements in the batteries for one thing. Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. No, but the best on the market IMO. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. So then it gets really confusing as it seems like the first bar lasts 30% and the last one 10%. That rattling feeling comes from one way bearing. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? In comparison, you can get a Polygon Mt Bromo N8 with a Shimano EP8 motor for $7,899 AUD. Why so delicate, bro? In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. The brand was made aware of failures occurring when the EP8 motor is used with pedal cranks made by brands other than Shimano, including e*thirteens e*spec ebike-specific cranks. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. Annoying rattle, did anyone say that to Shimano when they first introduced the freewheel? And that's with the big heavy battery too. Just imagine if i had bought a Shitmano Ebike. I love the progression of Ebikes! Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. Didn't think I'd ever see that. It is a feature bro, the sound of pure class. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. Rattling and lack of update to the battery monitoring is a no go for me, I would just upgrade the battery to the new 620s if i could fit it. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. [The] topic has been closed from Shimano[s] side but e*thirteen is still investigating with independent labs.. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? In the article it is not considered that much of an issue as supposedly trackstands are less common on e-bikes, but if I'd get one (if ever) that would be just what I can imagine myself do. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. According to Shimano, the EP8 motor offers a 36% reduction in drag over the old E8000 motor, and we're inclined to believe that claim. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. Have had my Norco Range LVT with the EP8 for a week and have noticed the noise, maybe once? That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. According to e*thirteen, the safety inspection is relevant to all EP8 owners, regardless of what cranks are fitted. Repair and maintenance of Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and Brose eBike motors Repair and maintenance of eBike motors from the following manufacturers: Bosch Active Line, Bosch Active Line Plus, Bosch Cargo Line, Bosch Performance Line and Bosch Performance Line CX For more details on the full range of Bosch motors click here Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. - Tuning options are simple and effective At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! Instead, we recommend setting aside some time for a battery-drainer test ride, somewhere that is accessible and easy to ride out with a flat battery, in order to work out your maximum range you can get during typical riding conditions. This also allows brands to more neatly integrate the motor into their frame designs, Canyon having done a particularly swell job with the Spectral:ON. Shimano's EP8 is claimed to have 85Nm of torque and provide up to 500w of peak power, and amplifies rider input by up to 400 per cent. Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. Along with the new EP8 motor, Shimano has also released a larger 630Wh battery, which seems to be the most popular option at the moment youll find it inside both the Canyon Spectral:ON and Merida eOne-Sixty.